DFAS Followup Requested

Posted by Warren Enos on 08 Nov 2007 | Tagged as: Chapter Support

12 Responses to “DFAS Followup Requested”

on 10 Nov 2007 at 8:13 am   Warren Enos




Friends, the visibility level is being elevated and thanks to Jerry and Warren for this posting.

Here is an excerpt from VADM Norb Ryan’s weekly newsletter to all Board Members.

Bud Schneeweis spoke at the DFAS Pay and Personnel Conference in Cleveland earlier this week. There’s a lot of hard work taking place behind the scenes at DFAS to try to improve that organization’s flexibility and responsiveness. It’s a big operation that does many things well, but the few things they do not so well have a big impact. Bud was able to have some of our members’ issues resolved on the spot, while others are being looked into.

Jerry, we will not give up!

Thanks for your efforts.

Bill



on 10 Nov 2007 at 2:05 pm   Warren Enos




Greetings to All:

Thanx, to Bill Gavitt, Warren Enos and to so many others (CAL-MOAA and MOAA National) for keeping this DFAS issue moving forward. DFAS, as a many-layered GS in-house supported and out-sourced contract based organization, has a huge challenge to “cut it.” One of the fundamental problems within the DFAS organization; are the inter and intra-communications networks. That is, the GS side of the house is not always connected with the outside contractors (hired guns) — whose communications and information networks are not melded together. Thus, the mis-match and lack of accurate coordination of DFAS customers’ records, claims and paperwork falls short. These systemic problems are most pronounced in not accurately matching up the survivor’s (sponsor’s) paid up SBP premiums’ refund rights vs. record keeping. Moreover, DFAS is lacking in the internal process of accurately alerting (notifying) the survivor of his/her Public Law rights of SBP premium refund (no interest) in too many cases.

The DFAS record and financial accountability side of their house has shortfalls resulting in DFAS contractors sending out the infamous Demand Letters. These Demand Letters (typos and all) are ruthless and provide no supporting mathematical or accounting data to support the Demand Letter. The Demand Letter just states the swift financial punishment that shall ensue. It took several days to track down the hired gun who actually wrote the boiler-plate Demand Letter for DFAS. He apologized for the typos. He stated that he did not know “the system” as to who was in charge of anything. He knew nothing of the system by which survivors and DFAS clients (customers) were notified — accurately or otherwise. He just got paid for the typos. Have a nice day.

I did manage to find a warm body who claimed that she was the DFAS GS-X person who actually licked the stamps and sent the Demand Letters. No, she did not check with any other DFAS department, she just had a list of targets which “they upstairs sent down.” No, she did not know who checked what for whom or when et al. She did not know who “they” were upstairs someplace or who sent her the list of DFAS widows and survivors as targets. When I contacted the “they upstairs” another GS-X struggled to explain why he didn’t know who dunnit. It was like the old Bud Abbott and Lou Costello routine of Who’s on First, What’s on Second. No problem, I already knew the Congressional Letter of Inquiry was about to be welded to the DFAS front door.

Conversely, one MOAA-survivor widow here was surprised (to put it gently) as to an unknown $17,000.00 deposit into her bank account. She called me. I called the hired gun side of DFAS. After several elliptical pass arounds and round robins to all kinds of strange guys; I found the hired gun out in the Tennessee boondocks who admitted that “there was an error of some sort, but that was not his department.” The Error Department was back in Cleveland, OH somewhere.

Most importantly, this widow-survivor was due the SBP premium refund, but DFAS instead charged her $11,000.00 in one of their very threatening Demand Letters. Once the U.S. Representative here was invited to join in the game, DFAS returned ALL of her money and she kept ALL of the $17,000.00 of SBP premium refund that she was always entitled to receive ASAP. Nothing in this particular case moved (no DFAS response) until we welded a precise Congressional Letter of Inquiry to DFAS’ front door. Within 72 hours of receipt, DFAS cranked up and the $28,000.00 (including the widow’s Demand Letter check and SBP refund) monies were paid. And so it goes. All cases here involving DFAS Demand Letters were resolved — with swift SBP premium refunds to our military widow-survivors of over $60,000.00 (before taxes). All cases here were accomplished through the use of Congressional Letters of Inquiry. Ditto for VA, DIC and Social Security corrections, reinstatements and payouts.

It does not require a deep read to understand the value and the power of a Congressional Letter of Inquiry. What all this does take, on the DFAS client-survivor side, is to know when he or she is being denied financial rights. We always call it being cheated back home. And far too many of our military wounded, veterans, pensioners and survivors have been cheated. Knowledge is power. We must educate our MOAA members how to be vigilant and get — and keep — their entitled and hard-won benefits. Until DFAS is forced to get their act in place, we must be prepared to pull together within MOAA and maintain the necessary vigilance, the full
oversight and positive response for those who can not help themselves. We owe this.

Best regards to all,

Jerry K. Loeb
Life Member MOAA

——————————————————————————–

—– Original Message —–



on 11 Nov 2007 at 1:31 pm   Warren Enos




Jerry,

We won’t let you down.

Larry S



on 11 Nov 2007 at 1:32 pm   Warren Enos




Some folks get weary with my constant focus on this DFAS list of problems. DFAS is the financial life-line for millions of military families, retirees and survivors. Untold millions of dollars of DFAS “mistakes” and under-payments have gone unchallenged and uncorrected for decades. Piecemeal and case-by-case corrections are not the sustained solution. DFAS has to get it as to this organization, at least, is not brain dead. In the political sense of American life, once DFAS understands that MOAA (and the other military organizations -TMC et al) will stay on the problems — and — as key Capitol Hill leaders control the DFAS budget which is sensitive to MOAA et al influences; then DFAS will begin to correct their internal problems. And our folks and others as well, will then begin to get a fair shake.

Before any of this political and financial psi can be applied, however, it is incumbent upon MOAA (and TMC) to get the facts of the DFAS operations and shortfalls. It does not take a deep read to figure out just how to go about all that. It can start with CAL-MOAA leadership and the Chapters wanting to set the pace. And doing it.

Passion for truth and fair dealing is not a detriment. It is what sets us apart as Officers and former Officers from the rest of American society. In our world surrounded by extreme and very flexible morals and ethics, we know better. We need to all act accordingly.

Jerry K. Loeb



on 11 Nov 2007 at 1:34 pm   Warren Enos




Interestingly enough, that DFAS does not pay any interest on SBP premium refunds. However, should the survivor (DFAS customer) owe money back to DFAS; the interest is calculated at the maximum (prevailing) percentage rate. There is no provision in the Public Law that requires DFAS to pay interest whatsoever. This has to be corrected.

What is really required is a full audit of DFAS’ internal procedures. Since this is not realistic from a MOAA manpower standpoint, MOAA needs to send a MOAA-appointed “Unit” into the bowels of DFAS; to observe and report to MOAA National as to their findings and provide strong and factual recommendations — that are realistically and politically achievable. My concern is that Captain Bud S.’s (MOAA National) visit to DFAS Cleveland, OH is expecting too much for just one man to observe and report. There needs to be a Unit (Tactical Team) tasked and assigned by MOAA National to hunker down inside DFAS and learn all they can and report.

A retired USN CDR (Supply Corps) friend of mine did visit DFAS. This Officer has well over 30 years of military and civilian financial professional experience. When I asked him to summarize his visit and observations he stated: “The thing (DFAS) is so huge that my eyes glazed over just trying to understand what I was seeing and hearing.” He went on to explain that his take on the whole operation was that no one (especially the Navy Captain-Supply Corps in Charge) — had not a clue what he was supposed to oversee and lead. My friend described the whole DFAS Cleveland Building as max full of GS workers who were barely literate. “Making work” as he described the situation. He went on to characterize the DFAS situation as: “A place for a whole lot of people to pull a Government paycheck instead of a Welfare check.” His words, not mine.

There has gotta be a better way to operate!

Also, I might have well missed it, but I did not read any reference to any DFAS issues/interest in the (final) Agenda notes for the upcoming CAL-MOAA 30th EXCOM Meeting.

Jerry K. Loeb



on 13 Nov 2007 at 6:57 pm   Warren Enos




Colleagues,
I am forwarding in chronological order and numbered some recent emails as part of a series on the problems some have had and are having with DFAS/SBP.

This is an attempt to reeducate all of us here in California on the causes and extent of the problem.

This series of exchanges followed the circulation of the Agenda for the Cal-MOAA Annual Meeting in San Luis Obispo 30 Nov-2 Dec.

Here is the first one, from CDR Jerry Loeb, Palm Spring Chapter, who uncovered this problem back in 2006. None of Jerry’s messages have gone to MOAA (this time) and I appreciate that. If you agree with Jerry and several others of us in California, it is incumbent on us to pick up the ball and run with it.

Bill Gavitt

DFAS #1 10/29/07

I would hope that under the CAL-MOAA 30th EXCOM conference, and under Old Business/President — there is a place, collective leadership motivation and reasonable time to take up some positive discussion and action re: DFAS SBP refunds, Personal Affairs (both Council and Chapter) support et al. The problems are still out there.

If I were not in the recording studio during the 30th EXCOM Conference, I would attend.

Nonetheless, I do have a level of reasonable confidence that the existing DFAS SBP problems would not get any traction. The DFAS situation will continue to languish; until there is enough financial pain and confusion to someday influence positive action and resolution. It is very regrettable that so many DFAS beneficiaries (SBP et al) do not even realize they might have been had. Or about to be had. Or could be had. And who is going to be there for them — to make things get and stay right?

CDR Jerry Loeb



on 13 Nov 2007 at 7:09 pm   Warren Enos




DFAS #2 11/07/07from Jerry Loeb

Hi, Bill:

Thanx for the inquiry re: DFAS et al. Warren Enos has graciously invited me to re-post the DFAS problems on the CAL-MOAA website (again).

The short stroke of the DFAS situation(s) as follows:

1. DFAS has both DFAS employees (G-types) — and — tons of outside contractors (hired guns who get a cut on every dollar they wring out of DFAS clients). The DFAS employees and the contractors are not on the same frequency —
and — the DFAS electronic tracking and matching programs do not communicate well with one another. To state that very politely. Thus, DFAS survivors such as SBP prospective (and actual) recipients get caught up in the bureaucratic crossfire. The hired guns send out the dunning (read threatening)letters to the survivors and terrorize them with threats (legal action) to take away their DFAS benefits and/or seize their properties and/or their bank accounts and savings.

I have read these letters and they are fearsome! The widow-survivors I have personally assisted, are beyond terrified. They are numb and panic ridden. Instead of the DFAS letter stating that the widow-survivor is entitled to a SBP refund, the letter demands re-payments of $17,000 dollars or more in these cases. These dollar amounts are the Public Law amounts of SBP premiums paid
over the many years (one case was over 36 years worth of premiums) directly by the sponsor/military retired person to DFAS.

2. When DFAS is challenged, the stock answer is: “I don’t know. That is with another department.” It is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree. The most senior survivors don’t stand a chance in this game. They either pay up (for something they know nothing about) or face the DFAS consequences. In one case here, the widow wrote a check for $11,000.00 under threat of having her home taken away. Pitiful. When I contacted DFAS the door slammed shut and no one would answer one question.

So, I immediately got the U.S. Representative here in the loop and viola! Back came the widow’s $11,000.00 (no interest) — and — then I made DFAS cough up over $17,000.00 (no interest) in SBP over due SBP premium refunds. Ditto for another MOAA widow-survivor here (U.S. Representative again in the loop) for 36 long years of SBP payments — which DFAS never offered to refund. Many more thousands of dollars were finally refunded (no interest). Her DFAS dunning letter was something else. When I contacted the DFAS contractor, he was pretty shook up but still defiant. He had the U.S. Rep on his back and he sniveled throughout our chat. Other MOAA widow-survivors here were
sandbagged by both Social Security and then DFAS. We cleared the decks on those multiple cases and got DFAS squared away double-ASAP.

3. Since I have “retired” from the Personal Affairs position here in this Palm Desert Chapter, I have continued to receive calls re: DFAS/SBP/DIC/VA et al. I do not take new cases only those of military-retired friends and neighbors — when asked to do so. Three of us in this Chapter, designed a full disclosure Survivor’s Check List. That List contains every action item possible. Most folks here just yawned and went off to lunch. Too bad. The List is comprised of over 14 pages and we spent weeks and months ensuring that it was accurate and complete. And it is. I sent a copy to Steve Strobridge also and to another MOAA National Officer. No feed back.

The fundamental problem with DFAS et al, is that too many of our members do not know their financial rights. And that is why DFAS and the hired guns can chop our people up without breaking a sweat. It is my absolute view that MOAA must take a leadership role and straighten out this DFAS situation with sustained results. I trust that I have answered at least some of your questions in this matter. Colonel Steve Strobridge, USAF (Ret) should have the complete
files on the cases from here. As you know, Steve and I have been around the DFAS et al spiky pylons many, many times. He should know much more about the DFAS situation than I shall ever know. This confounding DFAS problem has been
around for too long and most folks want to “piece-meal” it to death (read no action). With over 366,000 MOAA members, one would think otherwise. And so it continues to go.

To date, with our MOAA widows here, over $60,000.00 USD has been forced out of DFAS for required SBP refunds et al. The goal was $100 K but the next widow survivor (Medal of Honor spouse) was terrified that DFAS would retaliate
and take away her DFAS benefits. And so it goes.

CDR Jerry K. Loeb

____________________________________

—- Original Message —–



on 13 Nov 2007 at 7:10 pm   Warren Enos




DFAS #3
Prior traffic sent to me on 7 Nov and furnished for background The idea of plugging this topic into the Tahoe Meeting is 08 is a good one. I have added Chapters to the recipient list.

Bill Gavitt



on 13 Nov 2007 at 7:23 pm   Warren Enos




DFAS #4
More background, forwarded 7 Nov.
Bill Gavitt

Yo! Warren!

Thanx for the good suggestion re: DFAS et al postings on the CAL-MOAA weblog. I shall do some more research on the current DFAS statu(website,
PayPal link etc.) before I do a posting on the website. The problem with the current DFAS website is the difficulty for our more senior and non-computer literate folks accessing the site and successfully navigating the site.

There is no excuse for our more senior types to have to rely on a website. More importantly, in my view, is that our members must know their
financial rights under existing Public Law. Too often, DFAS staffers make the “attack” and our folks do not realize they been had — and — what to do. Thus, DFAS staffers (hired guns) press even harder and frighten our folks into blind and feared submission.

As important, our folks need to understand the potent use of their own Congressional leaders. Virtually without exception, the Congressional
professional staffers know how to turn the screws on DFAS, VA and so forth; and to get fast results. This is the second area of action once the benefierary FIRST understands that they have been had — or — about to be had. Thus, our folks must be primed to know what to do, recognize the problem(s) and ask the Chapter Personal Affairs Officer to step up to the
plate and get results. We need not aim for that senior MOAA member who is computer-savvy or completely mentally and physically able to do battle with DFAS et al. We need to aim for those who cannot do for themselves. We need education, protection, action and oversight through the local Chapters.

The suggestion as to having MOAA National conduct a forum (Lake Tahoe, NV — October 2008) on this issue, is a good one. However, and in all due respect, I do not believe that MOAA National appreciates the full scope and magnitude of the on going problems with DFAS et al. As importantly, we cannot expect MOAA National to roll out their big guns — until and unless — a lot more work is done from the bottom up from all the MOAA Councils and Chapters. CAL-MOAA can set the DFAS-issue pace and tone for the Wester States President’s Conference by doing its own factual DFAS homework first — and — then providing very clear and unambiguous facts at issue to fit a monolithic solution and game plan to MOAA National. What I do strongly suggest, is that MOAA National construct a MOAA Coordination Unit (knowledgeable volunteers to go out to DFAS Cleveland, OH) — and — observe and report. Then, meet at the Western States President’s
Conference with a solid, factual report of DFAS et al observations and findings — and — practical recommendations for sustained results.
Then, MOAA National will have something to really work with, instead of piece-meal complaints after the fact and so forth.

CDR Jerry K. Loeb



on 13 Nov 2007 at 7:27 pm   Warren Enos




DFAS #5
Sent to me on 7 Nov.
Bill Gavitt

Hi, Bill:

This is a shortened version of an earlier and personal e-mail to John Sammons. As follows:

MAIN SUBJECT TEXT ONLY:

In all fairness to MOAA National, if the MOAA Councils and Chapters had done the necessary spade work — such as kicking their Personal Affairs Officers into high gear and finding out how to identify the true depth of the DFAS et
al problems in each Chapter (and how to so simply and so effectively utilize their U.S. Reps’ and U.S. Senators’ good offices for fast and fair resolutions); then MOAA National would have some substantial facts to take to the
Hill. We cannot expect MOAA National to charge up the Hill when MOAA National does not have anything to present — except some random numbers and complaints. Facts. Facts. Facts. In my narrow view, without facts anything else is
suspect and not worthy of MOAA National’s carefully grown and respected political capital and resources.

First Step: In my view, there is a way to get facts. Beginning from the bottom up, Personal Affairs Officers from Chapters to Councils, commit to a due diligence review (an excellent recruiting tool in its self) of their respective memberships — find the DFAS et al problem areas with facts — blend the stats to back up the facts — and then put the facts on the table with MOAA National.

Second Step: Should the collective facts support farther action, MOAA National pulls together an all volunteer and screened ad hoc team (MOAA
Coordination Unit) to visit DFAS and observe. Not correct. Observe and report only.

Third Step: When MOAA National is armed with hard DFAS problem area facts, they decide how, when and where to lay the political foundation — to have the Hill make the sustained changes as necessary.

CDR Jerry K. Loeb

************************************** See what’s



on 13 Nov 2007 at 7:29 pm   Warren Enos




DFAS #6
A 9 Nov message. Forwarded for continuity.
Bill Gavitt

Yo! Warren!

Thanx so much for getting the DFAS continuing issue posted on the CAL-MOAA website. Bravo Zulu! Well Done!

The only slight modification in the posting, is that we retrieved over $60,000 gross (from DFAS SBP premium refunds alone) vs. the $25,000 as noted in the posting.

This does not count the Social Security and other “denied” benefits we managed to retrieve for our MOAA survivors here — and — permanently resolve.

You did a terrific job by getting the combined e-mail information inserted and positioned on the website.

Thanx again for doing such a great job!

Best regards,

Jerry K. Loeb
Life Member MOAA



on 13 Nov 2007 at 8:35 pm   Warren Enos




Hi, Bill!

Thanx for your e-mail response. Bud Schneewieiss kindly responded today that he willbrief me (us) upon his return from the MOAA Tampa meeting. I fully understand howmuch work and energy is required for all the MOAA meetings. This is an especiallybusy time of year.

It is my researched understanding that DFAS already has a master data base of every DFAS client (customer). Past and present. Rather than try to trouble shoot for each MOAA customer who has had — or is having — DFAS problems (starting a long slog from the bottom-up), it might be feasible for a working group (Unit) assigned by MOAA; to “visit” DFAS Cleveland and learn more about their structure and internal processes. The problems within DFAS are systemic. A good learning curve from the top-down (DFAS to MOAA HQ to the State MOAAs and Chapters), might be the way to.go. Subsequently, MOAA-wide would certainly have a better understanding of the DFAS caution light areas — and — inform our members accordingly.

Again, I strongly urge MOAA HQ to make DFAS a major article for one or two of the monthly MOAA Magazine(s) — once we really know what the real deal is with DFAS. In fact, a monthly DFAS, SBP, VA, DIC featured commentary article would also be very helpful to our members. DFAS is customarily used to occasional strafing runs. What we need is sustained understanding and oversight of the DFAS et al operations and processes — combined with real and practical solutions.

We should also enlist the assistance of TMC and other recognized military organizations, in the DFAS review-for-solutions scenario. There is no need to pile on DFAS in haste — and — draw skewed, misguided conclusions. Rather, professional and polite but measured review (to solutions) should be the hallmark. Moreover, we should not expect MOAA HQ and that very busy Staff, to do this work for us. We have some very good MOAA heads out here who are available, professional, knowledgeable and motivated. All they need to suit up, is to be asked.

It all starts with: What do we want? What do we know? What is the problem(s)? What do we want fixed? How do we get sustained solutions?

Re: The CAL-MOAA 2006 DFAS Membership Survey. It passed away in ICU due to lack of follow through. I suspect that most Chapters did not know how and what questions to ask. Y’gotta know the right question to ask before you can expect a reasonable answer/response. Warren Enos most probably knows what the real deal is re: Survey.

Again, Colonel, thanx for your continued interest and support on these important DFAS et al issues.

Best regards,

Jerry K. Loeb

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